Note: The video, obtained by ABCNEWS can be seen at:
no longer works - it has disappeared)
(what the UK
Gulf Vets group posted...as is)
someone explain how Apache mow down people with 30 mm DU ammunition?
Is there another, lower caliber gun onboard?
If not, and if the gunner happens to use DU ammunition (on purpose or by
mistake), the area fired at would be contaminated with uranium.
In Southern Serbia, A-10s were observed firing repeatedly at a rock
as if for practice. It was at the end of the 1999 Kosovo campaign --
a way of disposing of ammunition nearing expiry date?
January 18, 2004 11:14 PM
To: Piotr Bein
Subject: Re: Apache massacring (Video): Manipulation? By whom and what
No need to argue on the Apache video, it is nothing new. U see, US
chased Afghan women and children in Southeastern Afghanistan and killed
them all, when others came to help if any left alive, they were also gun
downed and then a third wave of civilian appeared for help, they were
massacred. This was, by the way, confirmed by UN envoy who inquired
it from US authorities. The US authorities said, any civilian loss is
regretable. But look, Apache is not B-52 that it bombs from 35,000 ft
rather was firing from less than a hundred feet on Afghan villagers.
I thought, this might illuminate the mind of those that doubt similar
conduct by the US military,
At 01:16 PM 1/18/04 -0800, you wrote:
Wrom: YLEJGDG Sent: January 18, 2004 7:22 AM
Piotr, IT IS NOT THE SAME VIDEO !!!!!!!!!!
THE VIDEO SHOWN ON ABC WAS FILMED AT NIGHT FROM A HELICOPTER, TRUCK AND
PICKUP [on the scene?]. BUT THERE WAS NO CAR [carriage?]!
The scene: driver of the pickup talks to truck driver by the door of the
pickup [text ambiguous as to who stood on the ground - I did not see the
video -- PB]. Pickup driver quickly opens pickup door, bends down, pulls
something like a pipe, runs to the left into bushes (a few metres off
road) and throws it away. He runs back to the pickup. Soldier gets
"ENGAGE"!!! over the radio, to kill. Soldier kills the pickup driver
the pickup door, and immediately after -- the truck driver IN FRONT of
truck! The soldier proceeds to find a third person in the back. That
person crawls out from under the truck and is shot as seen in the film,
with one, not with two series of gun shots.
The film was cut, and is not one consecutive sequence!
Something is fishy with the video whose url you posted! Manipulation? By
whom and what for?
Wrom: VCJVTLBXFGGMEPYOQKEDOTWFAOBUZXUWLSZLKBR Sent: January 18, 2004
Subject: FW: CAUTION - A TRAP?: Apache massacring Iraqis (Video)
Wrom: NVWWCUF Sent: January 18, 2004 7:04 AM
I saw this video on ABC evening news on Friday a week ago.
None of the 3 persons had anything resembling guns. The object thrown by
oone person is larger then any gun, as soldier declared (it was seen for
few seconds anyway). The third person is massacred, although he was not
by soldier prior to that. He knew he must have been hiding in the
background. Once clearly wounded person crawls out, he is being
Description by Peter Jennings on ABC justified because of supposed guns,
clearly soldier could not have determined that in a split second. I
that the people had not even realized that they were watched from the
helicopter (too far away?). Thus, soldiers were not in any danger.
It was clear masterpiece of butchery. Why would Pentagon release the
I don't know.
Sent: January 17, 2004 9:55
Subject: CAUTION - A TRAP?: Apache massacring Iraqis (Video)
Wrom: VZCMHVI Sent: January 17, 2004 8:52 PM
To: 'Piotr Bein'
Subject: RE: Apache massacring Iraqis (Video)
I believe that all information coming from peace sources must be 100%
reliable and error-free. The reputation of being impeccable source can
lost because single error.
"Appache massacring Iraqis" video has an interesting background that has
to be evaluated very carefully.
This is PENTAGON video - it was censored by PENTAGON and given to ABC.
It was shown on American TV in it's entirety. I have not seen it myself,
but people I trust have.
It is obvious from the PENTAGON video that one of the villagers was
equoopped with RPG or other tube-like launcher. That is the reason why
PENTAGON has released video through ABC to show that ordinary looking
people are US
Enemies in Iraq.
Then, edited version of this video appeared on the internet from the
in Europe who have not seen the entire footage. >From edited vesrsion
false concluson can be drawn that villagers were unarmed.
Reckless distribution of this video may put in peril the lives of
Iraqis. Pentagon only has to show the original and edited internet
and to discredit peace activists. After that, 'shoot first then ask
questions later' instruction may be given to all gunships in Iraq.
Any subsequent information from the peace groups will be considered
unreliable, just like edited ABC video.
It appears to be dangerous stuff.
Sent: January 18, 2004
Subject: RE: [DU-WATCH] Farmers?
I wished US KFOR was as effective in neutralizing terrorists and their
weapons in Kosovo, Jim. I was hosted by Kosovo Albanian terrorists last
Spring. They were thinking and talking murder, they were going to
training on the weekend, smuggling weapons rest of the time.
In WW2, guerilla ("terrorists", "bandits") liked action at night because
occupiers did not like it. A nation has the right and duty to
from attack, invasion, oppression and so on. Did you expect Iraqis to
you with flowers? Go to Fort Bragg for that.
Are they 9-11 terrorists or what? How did you figure out these are
- Colour of skin? DNA? Fingerprints?
- Commentary on CNN or in Washington Post?
- They busted US convoy from Kuwait carrying ammunition and supplies?
- They killed Coalition troops and you have evidence?
- They killed Iraqis, and US Apache got authorisation from temporary
authorities to sentence without a trial?
Should everyone bow because US graced Iraq with an illegal invasion and
occupation that killed 30 or 50 thousand Iraqis? US forces are as
there as in many other regions, including Poland, Bulgaria, Hungary,
Croatia, Serbia, Romania, Slovakia, Czech Republik, Baltic republics,
Belorussia, Ukraine, Greece, Turkey, Macedonia. Go fix your country
before teaching other nations "liberty and democracy".
Am I clear?
[mailto:xxxxx@xxxxxxxx] (removed for privacy)
Sent: January 18, 2004 9:02 AM
Subject: [DU-WATCH] Farmers?
Notice that the video clip was made in darkness. Farmers usually
don't work at night but terrorists do. As Piotr has pointed out, the
full clip released by Pentagon shows these guys with an RPG.
Sent: January 17,
2004 9:41 PM
Subject: RE: [DU-WATCH] Farmers?
Your military expertise would be valuable to hear, why you think these
Iraqis were a threat to the US chopper.
From: jimdriftwood [mailto:xxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: January 17, 2004 8:13 PM
Subject: [DU-WATCH] Farmers?
I watched the video and I think it is far from clear that the
victims were farmers. There may well have been other information,
other than that shown in the video that caused the attack. American
soldiers do not normally kill innocent people.
Sent: January 17, 2004 9:06 PM
Subject: [DU-WATCH] Re: Apache massacring Iraqis (Video)
-I reviewed the video and I consider it's content to be evidence of a
war crime. I believe if the truth really came out. Many war crimes
have already been committed. I made it a point to pass on the
url. Thanks for caring enough to get the truth out. Itís going to be a
long long haul.
Apache massacring Iraqis (Video)
Download next movie - the slaughter.
Link had to removed due to the fact it now leads to an outdated
website that has removed the materal.
WATCH PROUD AMERICAN WARRIORS BLOWING UP FARMERS. NOTE
THE TRACTOR ON THE LEFT. NOTE THE LACK OF WEAPONS OF
THOSE KILLED. NOTE THE CLOSE IN SHOT. NOTE THE LACK OF
EVASIVE MANEUVERING BY THE CHOPPER CREW AS ONE
WOULD EXPECT IF IT WERE UNDER FIRE. THE APACHE KILLING
VIDEO. PASS THIS ONE AROUND.